I would love everyone to read the article below and email me with their thoughts.

I will publish the thoughts with the author’s permission as I deem fit.

January 2009 new comment added below.

Is God an atheist?

I think that the rules of Religions have nothing whatsoever to do with God, so does this make God an atheist? According to certain theories it could do. Some believe that God is the Rules of Religions and others believe as I do, that God is not the rules of Religions. So as I believe that God is not the Rules, does that make me and my God according to ‘God is the Rules’ theorisers, atheists?

If the Rules of Religion are not from God and are not God, who is God? How can we find out?

Scientists have not yet decided that Science proves the existence of God. Scientists have introduced an intelligent designer but what that is, scientists cannot explain to their satisfaction; now I believe that scientists are trying to disprove that there is an intelligent designer.

I think that scientists rely on best theory and physical evidence proved by one or any of our 5 physical senses – touch, sight, hearing, smell and taste.

Science cannot prove our 6th sense or spiritual element and yet that can be seen by so many aspects: thought, ideas, feelings, sensitivity and an ability to rationalise thought processes.

Aristotle did acknowledge a spiritual element that a TV programme on the Discovery channel: ‘How life began’ called the Quintessential element after establishing the four elements of earth, wind, fire and water. Science also uses maths to prove aspects and what is not evident when substances are introduced. Science looks for the gaps as well.

Humans have been brought up on a diet of rules. Rules began from the beginning of our existence. God gave them to us in the first instance because living in the world without God was impossible.

There are the rules of religions and the laws of the land. In the early days of our existence religious ceremonies and superstitions were the laws of the land as well as of the religions.

Now we have government laws and rules of religions and the two are different.

I think that in the early days of our existence humans wanting power to control the masses devised their own set of rules and so religions were born. Man using the idea of a God were able to control people with their Religions.

What happened when humans first arrived in the world? Whether we are evolutionists or creationists the theory is the same. Humans arrived and had to live together.

I think that the idea of a God became more and more removed from human thought as the generations passed and instead of trusting individual instincts, humans were like sheep and wanted someone to tell them what to do and so rules were followed.

Looking at the bible story of Adam and Eve:
Jesus always spoke in parables – stories. So let’s assume that what Moses wrote in Genesis is a story of how life began. I personally don’t think there was an actual Adam and Eve, human beings came into being. How to live our lives was breathed into us and is the word of God written in our hearts and minds. We didn’t need rules. We were created with the knowledge to live. But we wanted to control life ourselves. We wanted to do it our way. So God allowed it. Rather than live with God, we walked out and lived without God, until we called out to him.

God supplied a few rules to help us and then to cope we made our own rules, when those rules didn’t work we turned back to God for help.

I believe that the books of the bible are real life stories to graphically prove a point. God uses the Jewish nation to illustrate His work, He could have used any nation.

In times of trouble when the Jews cried out to God, God helped them. Through Moses God gave the Jews and so the world The 10 Commandments.

The Jews asked for laws and God gave them Judges and then Kings to guide them but still they rebelled and wanted something else so God promised them the Messiah. If God had chosen any other nation to represent His work, they would have behaved the same way as the Jewish nation at that time.

God had given his human beings the gift of choice. He couldn’t help unless the human being asked Him.

I was brought up with rules, I presume, like most people. My rules were not just the household domestic rules of my parents but also the rules of the church and convent school I went to or more pertinently belonged to.

I use the word ‘belonged’ to portray the seriousness to me of the rules, either with obeying them or more importantly the effects of disobeying them.

Rules for me were the benchmark of right or wrong, they were the base line you did not cross or dire things would happen.

I was so confused one day when I read in the bible that if there were no rules (laws) there would be no wrong (transgressions).

In my childish brain I couldn’t comprehend this statement. Rules in those days were everything to me, there had to be rules or there would be anarchy. Rules made things right, I thought. So how could not having them produce no wrong? Surely there would be more wrong in the world?

Because of the rules rooted inside me, controlling me, I assumed others had to live by these rules and if they didn’t they were wrong.

It wasn’t that I wanted everyone to do everything my way; following the rules I had been brought up with, as far as I was concerned, had to be done or evil was being committed.

Obeying rules equated with good in my mind and disobeying rules equated with evil. I now follow the laws of the land and do not have any rules of religions to follow except what sounds good in my heart and mind and the only precept of God’s: to love one another as one should love oneself.

Whether you believe in a Creator or in evolution, good and evil abounds in this world.

It is the concept of good and evil that necessitated the provision of rules when man wanted control on earth because man couldn’t control this concept without rules.

So where did the concept of Good and Evil come from?

I now look at good and evil on a sliding scale similar to the pH scale of acid and alkaline.

It is what gives us the ability to choose, to make a decision.

If there was not the concept of good or evil there would be no ability to choose. Therefore to my way of thinking Good and Evil were created by the intelligent designer I call God.

The concept of Good or Evil that we can see in ourselves and each other is just that a concept, it cannot be touched, or seen as substance, or heard as a sound, or tasted or smelt. It is part of our 6th sense. And science cannot explain our 6th sense.

Ideas or thoughts are another part of our 6th sense. We know they exist because they produce a product. Without an idea or thought nothing would happen. Ideas or thoughts cannot be sensed by any of our 5 physical senses – touch, sight, sound, smell and taste until the idea or thought produces something tangible. And while each physical sense consists of one aspect, our 6th sense consists of many aspects – feelings, emotions, thoughts, character, behaviour, rational, sensitivity so our spiritual 6th sense is in actual fact a reality and also essential to life.

Good and Evil can only be witnessed through human nature. So we know it exists because of our behavior and the choices we make. And the choices that human nature makes brings the evil that is in the world … and the good.

Both acid and alkaline are corrosive. So I wondered about good and evil. Was pure good corrosive? Do we need evil to balance?

The ability of humans to make a good decision between good and evil is tricky at the best of times. We can weigh up what we know of the consequences but often what we don’t know is not revealed until after we have made the decision. So we make a mistake. And then we know.

On a small scale if a child puts its hand in the fire because on the face of it the fire feels warm and comfortable and the flames look pretty and soft, they realise that the fire is extremely hot and it burns and that causes pain and so is not a good thing to do.

A mistake is made, but at the same time the child learns that fire is painful and one has to be cautious.

On a large scale murder is committed or wars or molestation.

There are laws about this in society that stem from The 10 Commandments so we know we mustn’t commit murder or commit molestation because it hurts people.

War is a different matter and there are wars to defend our country or to protect the innocent and sometimes extremely poor decisions are made to go to war.

The decision to go to war at the end of the day becomes a matter of ethics. And that becomes twisted with politics and spin.

In this instance rules do not help and the scale of good and evil can slip towards evil intention although it can appear as good.

So if humans cannot keep the balance of good and evil to make ‘right,’ ‘fair,’ ‘good’ decisions, who can?

Will we eventually evolve to being able to control the balance and therefore peace will reign?

Without rules? I don’t think so.

In the beginning there were no rules, just life, the Garden of Eden, an illustration of what life should be like.

We can see opposites exist in nature. That it how nature works by the balance of opposites as in the acid/alkaline scale.

For our digestive systems to be healthy we need a balance of good bacteria and bad. We need the bad bacteria. The good keeps it in control. The point is we need a little of the bad.

So is evil wrong? Like the heat from a fire, it burns. But in moderation is it needed by good? For balance?

However I don’t believe humans will ever be able to control the good/evil balance and this is the problem with the world.

For me only one person can keep good and evil in perfect balance and that is the Creator, God.

We only need one rule and it isn’t even a rule it is another concept. It is love. Another aspect of our 6th sense.

With love we can make good decisions. But love can be greedy or it can be so selfless that it denies our personal needs. Either is not good love.

It is a tricky aspect, knowledge of Good and Evil, and one that Adam and Eve [or first man] wanted so much that they were allowed their wish and the world was given over to their control and here we are in this world with all the sufferings, rules and laws that poor decisions have made.

Adam and Eve, I believe is just a story to illustrate how the world changed from being a place of peace and beauty to the difficulties encountered throughout its lifespan.

The creator devised evil alongside good and was ably suited to maintaining the balance. Man when he was created wanted what God had hence the way the world operates today.

How Rules of Religions came into being:

In the very early days of life on earth the poor decision makers [man] used more and more rules to control in a bid to provide their idea of peace and harmony.

After Jesus Christ, a man that science admits existed, and his words of love, the political powers at the time got concerned about their lack of control over the new christian belief system.

Jesus Christ came at a time of the Pharisees’ hypocritical attention to rules. Those that implemented them were rigorous. It was a completely new concept to apply the rules with love. It wasn’t that love was not understood or known about. Love had never been applied alongside a rule. Jesus opened up a new avenue of thinking that caused ripples in the political realms. Jesus Christ also introduced forgiveness without sacrifice because He was the sacrifice.

Even today Religions expect their followers to do some atonement when seeking forgiveness.

Jesus opens up the software inside ourselves to forgive others as well as forgiving ourselves without atonement. Before Jesus forgiveness was conditional, based on having to do some penance or sacrifice. After Jesus love and forgiveness became unconditional. We do not have to do anything to receive love and forgiveness, apart from accepting it.

The roman empire was severely affected by devisions between the Jews and Rome and then the new Christians. The Emperor at the time, Constantine, was canny. He decided to adopt the christian faith and control it. He took books from the Torah and the writings of the apostles and produced the first bible. He called his new political party The Roman Catholic Church and introduced a new rule book The Catechism. Misusing texts from the books of the bible he forced people to attend the church and pay regular sums of money into their coffers. To prove the autonomy of the newly formed religion, texts from some of the apostolic writings were confused and so the idea of a Pope was formed.

In a bid to persuade more people to attend the Roman Catholic Church a fertility aspect was introduced. A statue was formed based on the image of a woman and the Babylonian Sun Goddess and called it Mary as that was the name of the mother of Jesus. Constantine reasoned that as Jesus had called himself the son of God, Mary must therefore be the mother of God. It is like saying that because the Duke of Edinburgh is the father of Prince Charles then the Queen, the mother of Prince Charles must also be the Duke’s mother. To this day I don’t understand this reasoning but to this day the catholic church honours this fictitious aspect.

Over the years many awful atrocities were conducted by the Roman Catholic church in the name of God.

Because of poor decisions and the introduction of more rules, some abandon the idea of a creator when realisation dawns that the rules are wrong. The world equates God with the Rules of religions, so if the religions appear so wrong or cause untold suffering, then it is reasoned there cannot be a God.

I believe that Religions have corrupted the reality of a Creator and Creation.

Religions have made such poor decisions they have created more evil in the world, so it is no wonder that so many are turning away from the thought of a Creator and making sense of life from nature, from what can be seen.

And this is precisely what Paul, from a book in the Bible called Romans, is speaking about when he says that we all know God because we know Creation. We can see nature, we know God.

God doesn’t want us to follow rules, he abandoned them himself. This is why he allowed us to have the knowledge he has so that we can work it out for ourselves. All God wants is that we know him. And he tells us we know him because we can see nature and know it. We are part of nature ourselves and so we know God.

God was aware that the pain of the knowledge of poor decision making would destroy the human race when it realised the poor choices it had made and the devastation that resulted from the choices. God introduced another aspect of love – forgiveness. This was alien to the nations at the time, they believed in an eye for an eye punishment that can still be witnessed in some cultures today with fearful consequences. The concept of forgiveness without atonement is only found in the Christian belief. For anyone to understand forgiveness, we had to know that we were forgiven and this is why Jesus died on the cross. To show we are forgiven so that we can forgive ourselves and forgive others. By His death and resurrection Jesus Christ provided the concept of forgiveness without sacrifice no more eye for an eye, no more burning of the sacrificial lamb, no more doing of anything just forgive.

Spirituality doesn’t come into the concept of Science. It cannot be touched, seen, smelt, heard or tasted.

But we know it is there. Just as we know good and evil exist. Good and Evil is in our very natures and we can see them in the way we behave.

Character traits cannot be touched they can only be observed when the individual portrays them.

So the clue to the existence of God is our own existence and the observations of nature compared with what human beings have and plants and animals do not.

Nature cannot grow Good and Evil. Nature cannot grow character traits. Nature cannot grow decision making. Nature cannot grow ideas. Nature cannot grow thoughts. Nature cannot grow feelings or emotions. The unseen spirit provides those. We know they exist because we see them in ourselves and others.

Good and Evil is only seen in human beings. Just like character traits which develop from our upbringing and own tendencies from choices caused by our upbringing and parentage.

Science admits it is missing one or two pieces of the jigsaw of life. I think those pieces that are missing are Thoughts, another aspect of the 6th sense. Science with all its thinking capabilities that creates theories and understands the universe never asks itself where thought comes from in the first place.

Science may have traced our origins from a big bang and carbon and light and then a single cell but science cannot show the line from animals to humans as far as thought is concerned. Animals don’t think. Some animals copy behaviour and some remember events but no animal can philosophise and communicate its thoughts, and invent products.

Science has plotted the route of creation from the big bang, single cell to animals. Science cannot plot where thought and ideas come from. And yet the answer is there, science thinks and proves itself by thought. Thought was there before the world began. God, the root of thoughts.

The words in the Bible are the same words that were breathed into us when man was first created. The words in the Bible are the same words Jesus spoke. Jesus is the word and when we come to know God, the words of God are awakened in our hearts and minds.

God asks us to do His Will.

And His Will is?

The Will of God is to believe in Him and that He made the World. That is it. God’s Will is for His humans to accept that He exists. We don’t need Rules to tell us that. Science, God’s creation tells us this.

While the bible was written by men, God inspired the words of the bible and this is why we can trust what it says, when we become Christians we awaken that God part of us we are born with and understand the bible even better because we recognise the words, written in our hearts since we were created.

We need only one Rule and that is Love, because from love everything else follows.

Bible references

Genesis Chapter 1 verse 1,2

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was^[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

This demonstrates that God had the idea first before forming it. Verse 1 says God created the heavens and the earth. Then Verse 2 says the earth was without form.

In other words the earth did not exist. So when it says in Verse 1 that God created the heavens and the earth, it means He had the idea, the thought first and it also indicates that ideas, thoughts, are extremely important, vital which is why when God had the idea, the thought, it is represented by itself as the very first verse of the first book of the bible. Ideas, thoughts are essential for life.

Romans Chapter 1 verse 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Look at verses 19, 20, it clearly states that God has shown the truth to man and that His attributes are clearly seen and are understood by all that are made. So the trees, plants, animals and insects know God better than most human beings.

If we read these verses with the knowledge of evil at one end and good at the other, all God is saying here that if the good end is not believed then evil is the result. Where it states that ‘they did not glorify HIM as God’ it means that the truth was not accepted and appreciated.

For years I thought that glorifying God meant going down on bended knee and for ever bowing as we do to a King or Queen. That is not what is meant. Glorifying God is simply giving Him the total acknowledgement and appreciation of His work in Creation.

The Bible illustrates a ‘best practice’ way of conducting our lives. I don’t think God expects us to achieve it. I think he gives us the ideas as a guide. He provides forgiveness for when we fail. Forgiveness of self. God doesn’t mind our failures. He minds our lack of acknowledging our mistakes because that lack damages our own selves.

God is love. True love. He wants our peace and happiness for ourselves.

God is the ultimate concept of Good.

Romans 13 verse 8

8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,”^[a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”^[b] 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 4 verse 15

because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

Thank you.

Email received with comments and perceived corrections:

Dear Marianne,

I read on your website the piece Is God an Atheist? Rather a contradiction in terms! Dictionary definition—‘rejection of belief in God or gods’. I am a bit concerned, as there seems to be quite a bit of confusion.

The article covers of wide range of subject matter, to cover them all in detail would produce a rather lengthy tome!

For the sake of brevity I thought that perhaps I’d just raise the areas where you seem to have the wrong end of the stick, so to speak, and where appropriate, give you an online reference that you could read, if you want to, at your leisure. This would give more in-depth information. You can of course ignore the lot, but I felt I had to write out of my love and concern for you.

Of even more importance, it has to be said, out of concern for any others who may read your article and think it’s all sound doctrine.

The fundamentals of Christianity have to be known and adhered to otherwise we get into error. We are instructed to ‘contend earnestly for the faith’. Jude 3.

Quite right, rules of religions have nothing to do with God. Anderson says, ” Christianity …. is not a religion, but a revelation and a faith” it is a completion of the Judaism of the Old Testament.

Someone has said (I can’t remember who) that religion is man trying to get to God, but Christianity is God coming down to man.

Regarding body, soul and spirit, there is a helpful and informative article at

Bible.
[I couldn’t find the article at first and then discovered this one: Body, soul and spirit but I am not sure if this is the one Viv means]

A word of WARNING Regarding these articles—- I have read them and found them ok, BUT I haven’t as yet been able to check out the whole of each website, so should you investigate further do check what they have to say against Scripture. As you also should with what I write.

‘Looking at the bible story of Adam & Eve’

. Again a link for you British-Israel. Regarding who wrote the book of Genesis.

If a person is a creationist that means they believe that God created the world and everything in it, including the first human beings, Adam & Eve.Not to believe that means that person is an evolutionist. We have to believe the Bible as a whole, otherwise all of Judaism and its fulfilment in Christianity is just not true. No grey areas.

Regarding the Ten Commandments have a look at

God’s Ten Commandments for a comparison between the old and new covenant go to www.godstenlaws.com/law-grace/index.html

There is a very good article in The Believers Bible Commentary by William McDonald, pp. 2226-2228.

God gave them Judges first so that Moses wouldn’t be overburdened, see Genesis 18:13-26; Deut. 1:9-17.

The Jews didn’t ask for laws, (see above re commandments) they asked for kings so that they could have a ruler with flesh on who could be seen by other nations. 1 Sam.8:5-22

God can’t help unless we ask.

God often helped and helps without being asked, see Daniel and the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Out of His love for us He planned that mankind should be delivered out of the bondage of sin and subsequent spiritual death, He gave us the Messiah, not because the Jews rebelled and wanted something else. He also has planned what will happen to those who do not believe that His Son Jesus, died for the sins of all.

The Messiah was promised when there were only 2 people on earth, Adam & Eve. See Genesis 3:14,15, and see The Tabernacle Place click on ‘articles’ and select ‘what is the tabernacle’

If there were no rules (laws) there would be no wrong (transgression)’. Romans 4:15, see Romans 7:7-10. Note verse 7 where he explains. Again The Believers Bible Commentary is helpful.

The only precept of God…etc see Matt. 22:36-40. The second commandment comes from the fulfilment of the 1st.

In the beginning there were no rules.

Gen.2:15-17.
Love that is greedy …selfless. That form of love is lust.

Knowledge of good & evil ….Adam & Eve wanted so much…..they were allowed their wish.

Disobedience to God is sin. Eve, then Adam gave way to temptation, they had broken the God given rule. Gen. 3:1-21.
It was and is Satan’s ultimate goal to control mankind, all his efforts are to that end which will ultimately lead to his claim to be worshipped as God and that he is god.

Adam & Eve could have known only good by obeying God. When tempted by Satan they believed his lie that they could know as much as God. They ate the fruit and then had the knowledge of how to sin and that they had already done so. Good and evil are not a balancing act, good will prevail at the end of this world. Satan (the epitome of evil) only acts because God, at present, allows it.

Jesus came to earth to be the final, last and complete sacrifice, the Perfect Lamb, he didn’t come to spread stories of love. He fulfilled the Law that required the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus’ perfect sacrifice also destroyed the power of sin for those who believe.

…religions expect their followers ….to do some atonement.

Dictionary definition—‘ Christian theology – the reconciliation of man with God through the sacrificial death of Christ.’ Christians do not need to ‘do’ atonement, Jesus’ sacrificial death is atonement for those who believe.
Man cannot reconcile himself with God.

Before the death of Jesus on the cross, the Jews, under God’s instruction, offered sacrifices to God so that He would ‘cover’ their sins. But they were still under bondage to sin. After the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ those who believe are no longer under the slavery of sin. The Holy Spirit is given to help us not to sin, and if we do (because ‘old habits die hard’ and ‘our enemy prowls about seeking whom he may devour’) we can go to God 1 John 1:8-10 for forgiveness.

After Jesus love and forgiveness became unconditional.

There is a condition and that is, that we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He died for our sins, that there is no other name by which we can be saved from eternal damnation. That God raised Him from the dead and that He ascended bodily, physically, to be seated at the right hand of God. Those who believe have this confidence and expectant hope of eternal spiritual life.
What we do need to do is to recognise that we are sinners and then believe the above and be forgiven by God.

I can’t find a Scriptural reference that says we have to forgive ourselves, neither does the Bible tell me to love myself in the sense that you have taken it to mean. It does however, tell me to lead my life as a sacrifice to God, Rom.12:1. Read The Believer’s Bible Commentary on Rom.13:8-10.

All wrong is primarily an offence against God first and foremost.

The roman empire was severely affected.

The bulk of this is covered under the Bible History web site.
Mary must therefore be…

because Jesus is both God and man, in a sense Mary was the mother of God, but the mother of God the Son not God the Father. Acts 13:33; Is. 7:14 God with us; Matt. 1:21.
God doesn’t want us to follow rules, … he abandoned them himself.

That means He made a mistake in the first place! He hasn’t allowed us … to work it out for ourselves. He has given us the Bible His inspired word, ‘sharper than any two-edged sword’ Heb. 4:12, to guide and correct us, 2Tim.3:16-17.
God’s will is

Rom.13:20-21; Matt.18:14;26:42; Mark 3:35; John 6:40;7:16-17;9:31;17.
So the trees …etc know God better.

Read the rest, it clearly refers to man. It has been established that plants and animals have not got minds, therefore they cannot think and have abstract thoughts.
Vs. 22,23. Man changed the everlasting glory of God into a man-made idol of a man that could be destroyed. They did the same by making images of birds, animals and insects, the originals of which had been created by God (and were therefore His glory) and they worshipped these images as gods.

I hope this has been of help to you and I will leave between you and God, who sees all and knows all, and to whom we are all answerable, as to whether you put all or any of this on your web-site.

God bless, and love from Viv.

My response:

Thank you very much Viv for taking the trouble to write.
I used the title purposely to provoke a response and also because of the book The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. If you scan this book it appears to be referring to Religions and appears to assume that the man-made rules of those religions is God. For me that makes the God I believe in an atheist according to Richard Dawkins book.

I tried to make this article ‘my thoughts’ and not fact but I have possibly misunderstood some aspects of the Bible. However to check everything out so precisely would mean referring to the original greek words and hebrew words and possibly getting involved in learning ancient greek and hebrew and seeing the scrolls the writings came from. So we do have to ‘trust’ that other scholars infinitely more intelligent than myself have made the correct deductions from the scrolls.

I do believe that each person is born with the Word of God written in their hearts, soul, mind and spirit.
When we come to know God and what He has done for us in sending His Son and what His Son has told us, we recognise God because we have His Word carved in us.

So while we have the Bible for our visual benefit, we also have the Word in our hearts, soul and mind to help understand.

My extremely lengthy article is about my thoughts and I am not trying to suggest I am right, which is why I invited comments.

I just wanted to offer a theory, which I think is interesting, for debate. I apologise if what I have written comes across as fact.

i thank Viv for her email and have printed it here in its entirety without editing apart from taking someone’s name out and making the links work.